Wayspot criteria create a major gameplay imbalance between urban and residential/rural areas

General Discussion
1

I understand and agree with the need for quality criteria for Wayspots. The issue I would like to raise is different: the current system creates a very large geographical inequality in Pokémon GO gameplay.

In my area, one part of the town contains many legitimate Wayspots because it has public facilities, sports areas, monuments and identifiable points of interest. A nearby residential area contains almost none, simply because its urban design does not provide objects that meet the current criteria.

The consequence is that two players living only a few hundred metres apart can have completely different access to the game. One can reach several PokéStops or Gyms from home or on foot, while another has to drive somewhere else simply to access basic game resources.

This is not a nomination-review problem: the eligible objects simply do not exist in some residential areas.

Therefore, Wayfarer cannot solve the imbalance by itself.

Would the Pokémon GO team consider a complementary mechanism for areas with very low Wayspot density? For example:

  • game-generated points in underserved cells;
  • temporary or rotating PokéStops;
  • additional interaction points that do not need to be Wayspots;
  • a system based on player/activity density;
  • or another mechanism allowing normal gameplay without requiring players to drive to a denser area.

Pokémon GO encourages walking and exploration, but in areas like this, the current system can paradoxically encourage players to use a car to reach somewhere where the game is playable.

I am not asking for the Wayfarer eligibility criteria to be weakened. I am asking whether Pokémon GO could compensate for geographical areas where those criteria inherently cannot produce sufficient game infrastructure.

2

Welcome to the forum!

The team is aware of this disparity and is testing new Wayspots for exactly this situation where the wayspot density is low.

We haven’t had any feedback on this since the last post in January, but where we saw these going live were in residential areas as you describe.

3

In addition to whats already said, pokemon Go also have Community Ambassador program where local ambassador can propose campsite (basically extra pokestop/gym/powerspot - subject to approval) for their local community gathering (usually in public mall or park)

4

Thank you, this is actually exactly the kind of mechanism I was thinking about.

The experiment you linked seems to address precisely the problem I described.

What I find particularly interesting is that these Niantic-generated PokéStops were apparently placed in residential areas with low Wayspot density, including in France.

Do we know why this experiment has not been expanded since January, or whether it is still being evaluated?

In areas like mine, the issue cannot really be solved through additional nominations because there simply are not enough eligible objects under the current Wayfarer criteria.

I also wonder whether another possible approach could be to allow certain otherwise non-eligible locations, such as street intersections or similar clearly identifiable public locations, but only in residential areas that are demonstrably underserved by Wayspots.

I am not suggesting that every intersection should become eligible everywhere. But perhaps a specific exception could exist when there are no eligible objects within a sufficiently large area and the location is safe and pedestrian-accessible.

In my case, the difference can be seen within the same small town: one area has many legitimate Wayspots, while a residential area only a few hundred metres away has virtually none.

Without some complementary mechanism — either generated PokéStops or specific eligibility exceptions for underserved areas — this geographical imbalance seems impossible to solve through Wayfarer nominations alone.

5

I think Scopely Explore are taking their time over this, because if all empty areas of the map get given pokestops without needing eligible POI, it changes the nature of the game and means a lot of people wouldn’t bother submitting things.

6

This is going to be the case in many places. Residential areas do not tend to have as many places that are eligible. Even in fairly large towns the outer residential areas are going to be less wayspot populated.

7

One solution to this problem is to walk/cycle/etc a few hundred meters to get to the area with more pokestops and gyms. Pokemon Go is about exploring, which means not everyone can expect to have their own densely populated areas on their doorsteps.

The closest area to me with more than a scattering of wayspots is 2000m.

8

If the areas with Wayspot are only a few hundred meters away, what is stopping people from walking or biking to the area with Wayspot from the residential area?

The purpose of games like Pogo and Pikmin Bloom is to encourage walking and exploring your area, so asking players to walk a few hundred meters seems to be in the spirit of the game.

9

Hi

Someone talking, that had at the start of PoGo the next POI in around 40 min distance

Thats not really playable

Rural areas have at most 1-3 stops/gyms in a village
Sometimes only 1 stop, maybe 2, but no Gym
“Normal” playing while walking is nearly impossible
Or possible, but for real? Would you still play PoGo, or the other games, if you would need to walk around 40 min for 1 stop? With bad internet connection on top, if you are unlucky?

Easy solutions are possible, just not here

“Easiest” one:

Make it so, that people can nominate a picture with an AR-Pokemon

The rules all apply, just the POI-Rule gets done

Make it like 3-4 POI on any Gym-Zell (Level 14 S2) and problem solved
Maybe give them another colour, so everyone can see, that the POI is a AR-Pic

Good thing: every Level 14 S2 Zell, where players are, have at least 1 gym and 2 stops, if they want

Bad thing: does something like that exist?

10

Everybody has a different way of playing the game so there isn’t an “Easy Solution”.

I try to get out and do a 1 mile walk for exercise (yes, I am old, unfit and have health issues). This will take me past 3 stops and 1 gym. I am totally fine with this. I don’t walk to play pokemon go, I use pokemon go to encourage me to walk.

I am lucky that I do drive so if there is an event that I want to go to I drive to the local town park about 3 miles away. I don’t think I need to go to every event. When I was much younger I would often walk there for none PoGo events, walk round the event then walk back.

Personally I think adding none criteria wayspots would just water down the idea that PoGo is to go out and explore. I think that Scopely need to be very careful and only use this in Wayspot Deserts and not just where people would like to walk less.

Just an opinion so I don’t mind if you don’t agree…

11

If you are a player, that uses PoGo as “bonus” while walking, yes it makes sense

I play PoGo for the game, not for walking
I work on a vegetable-farm, aka i run the whole day around
After i´m done with that, i wanna take it slow and grab my gifts/do the daily raid and stuff

How long do you think it takes, to spin 100 gifts out of 2 stops, that are not even in spinning-distance at 1 point?

Or how long do you think it takes, if the next stop/gym is 2 miles away from your home? Aka the start of PoGo

I dont know about the other games, so i can talk only about PoGo
Rural areas are not made for active players at all
If you need many gifts EACH day, you dont wanna drive 20-40 min just to get a playable spot. Not with the energy-prices on top of everything, and europe sucks with that atm.

And about the “just walk”

The first cluster, that is high enough, for gift-spinning (5 min loop) is around 1h walking distance. And that is not even flat/nearly flat.

So, PoGo feels definitly less “go and explore” and more like "go in the next big city and stay at 1 cluster (biggest park) and have fun

Cause everything else, exploring gets you nothing

If i just wanna move, I would go hiking on a trail or in the mountains and not care at all, if i can get stops/gyms/spawns.

But so, with the Wayspot criteria atm, you have pretty much 3 possibilties on land/rural areas.

Drive 20+ min into a city
Play with 1-2 pokestops and be less active. Less friend interaction via gifts, less meeting, since NO ONE stays at just 1-2 stops and talks for the game
Or be LUCKY and have a church or something else in your area, that makes a cluster

If feels like this, at least in the rural areas, where I have been so far

Thanks for reading

12

Please remember that wayspots are not just for Pokemon Go. So the above is not a viable option.

13

Question:

Outside of the games, which are played cause of games and not for the Wayspots

What else are they used for?

Or make it so, that AR-Pokemon-Stops are only in pokemon
Make them green instead of blue and go?

Answer, why I think, that would help the “game” is my text above

I still think, that Wayfarer is more for the games (pogo, ingress, pikmin bloom) and less for any app, that helps with Holiday-Travels

I´m someone, that is forced for a 20 min ride for any PoGo-event outside of PvP and Remote Raids

I´m lucky, since i have Roadsideshrines (in german, they are called Marterl) near me
Which just got removed, cause someone is funny and google street view is not next to them

The villages around me have 1 stop max
Any active PoGo player is RIP

So, if Wayfarer/Scopely is more about games, they should make changes about that
If they are more about “go and look at POI xyz” they should make the money from that and not raid passes, egg incubators or the other games

I dont wanna go back to the time, where you needet an active ingress player for stops/gyms

Aka rural area + no ingress player = gg, you have nothing at all in the game

14

I’m not sure I understood all your points, but I’ll try and address a few things.

Nominating wayspots or points of interest in The real world are what populate the Wayfarer database with eligible items. This database is used by Pokemon Go, Pikmin Bloom, and Monster Hunter Now. In the past Ingress also added to this database and used it to populate its game board, but was not purchased by Scopely and is now completely separate.

Each of the games uses their own logic to select wayspots to be used. That means a wayspot could be used in none, some, or all of the games. That is why the wayspots need to be neutral and not have games specific photos or descriptions (unless they are actually appropriate based on real life).

Both rural and residential areas can be tough as they are more limited in items that meet current eligibility standards (a great place to exercise, explore, or socialize). So if you have thoughts on additional items that Scopely could consider for eligibility that is a potential way forward here in the forum.

Scopely (previously Niantic) do not discuss what their inclusion rules for any of the current games are. It was the community that observed cell rules. So any thoughts you have on inclusion rules (cell density) for Pokemon Go would need to be shared with the Pokemon Go team.

15

Ok

I did know, that Scopely did buy out the games and Niantic wants AR-Maps or something like that, but didnt know, that Ingress did stay with Niantic. Doesnt change THAT much

About the 2nd point. Pokemon Go has MASSIV amounts of bonus stops/gyms for In Person events all around the Globe

I was in a few of them and we had Gyms with like "Pokemon Go Fest Madrid/Osaka/Berlin/insert City). So, it should be easy possible to make POI for just one game with the AR-Pictures

Same rules could also apply for Pikmin Bloom and Monster Hunter Now
AR Pic with Pokemon/Monster/Pikmin with a good background and “story” and go for it

The problem on “additional items” is, that most of the areas just have nothing.
The AR-Pic would change the rule, that I find, is the “best” to change.
Privat houses/farms, not save for walking/standing near it and problem for emergency-organisations are rules, that should ALWAYS be active

A cross on the road can be a stop/gym/POI. Most of them are like “who does actually care about them”. And thats comming from someone, that has them in his own religion.

About the Zell-Rules, that we know, but Scopely doenst discuss?
Go for a distance
Or give any Player, that reaches a certain requirement, that is NOT pay to win, and give it.
Can be max level, high catches/exp/whatever or high Wayfarer stats

Wayfarer stat with max level + certain points + no penalty for abuse and every X number of upgrades is a free POI, if the next POI is at least X m away

Would give motivation for Wayfarer and make it possible for a group, to do something in rural areas or even urban areas, where you have like nothing

I know, that this is not, what the “game” is about. But some quality of life changes would do good after all the bonus “paywalls”, that we have.

Aka shields in mega-raids, that you need remote passes AND another bought source for dyna/mega and co is just bad for anyone not living in a big city.

If someone think, my “idea” about the whole stuff is wrong, just say it.
But i want a game, that also does make it fun to play for everyone
And not like “drive into place X” so you can do the same stuff, that someone living at that place can do for free

I´m not talking about 100 gyms and 1000 stops at every village
I´m talking about enough, so that you can do daily raid and the gifts in a reasonable time without a car

Its about equality, regardless of where you life

16

These are highly planned, limited time events in large public spaces. I’m struggling to think how this would be feasible for rural or residential areas over the long term. How would the area get picked? You’d always end up with disappointed people. Plus there are strict rules about single family Private residential property (which includes farmland), schools, emergency obstructions, etc..

17

Im not sure if you’ve read through the conversations about rural nominations but the thread below is very good.

18

I was not stating that your ideas where wrong, just against the comment that “It’s an easy fix, add more none real world wayspots”. Not everyone is a “more stops = better game” person.

I do feel for the “wayspot deserts” and would be happy if scopely can work out a system where these are enhance which is what they are trying to do with the “Street Corner / Bus stops” experiment.

I definitely wouldn’t want everywhere to be like the city centres. Why go out when you can spin all the stops you need sat on the couch.

If this was a new game starting from scratch and I was in charge I would more likely be looking at having a max cap on the amount to limit the rural vs city argument.

I do think some people think more on the “others have it easier” instead of “how can this game work for me in my location”? How could I improve my area?

Being facetious, should we change the rules of Monopoly as it could trigger someone that was recently declared bankrupt or Scrabble in case it upsets someone who is dyslexic? :slight_smile:

19

Lets say, the are kinda planned with only one goal
Since more gyms = more raids = more money

How would the area get picked? Player make them, not the game/Scopely. You can still work on the details, but i think, Wayfarer points are a good start, since they cant really be cheated, if you also need the high ratio of accept/refused stops with the other players. The system for that is already active, so nothing new for that.

The strict rules about SFPRP, schooles and co still apply
But you can use anything else for it. Maybe the fieldways for tractors? Since outside of harvest-season, they are pretty much deserted. And walking on earth is mostly better than walking on hard ground.

Thank you for the link, gonna read through that now and gonna look, if i find something new

20

Ok, lets start at the top

Not everyone is “more stops = better games” is true. If everyone would be like that, no one would report false stops, duplicates or outdated ones. Cause they are just more stops. And lets be for real, most of the really high PoGo players, and i think, that also applies to the other games, are like this. More stops = better. When you need around 2000+ daily spins, 3-4 min per spin is not working.

I defenitely also wouldn´t want them everywhere like city centres. Lets just say, some of the city.
I have seen cities, small ones with around 5-000-15000 people, that had a really sad time at the start of PoGo.

About the max cap. You have them with the cells. It´s just some Wayfarer abuse at the start/middle, that did make more and sponsored stops/gyms. But if you have nothing from that, you have a cap at how many you can have.

About the “how can this game work for my in my location”. Every player can make the game work for himself in his location. The problem starts with players, that wanna be active/do more than the minimum. I´m someone in PoGo, that had times with around 4-6h playtime. Did drive daily in the city for it, cause at home, I had nothing. Rural/Urban village outside of the city without Ingress player meant, you had nothing.

It´s not about the rule changes. It´s about making the game playable for everyone at any place.
Let´s be real. None of the top 10% player (most money used) played in a rural village with 1 stop and nothing more. They all live or drive into the city.

The games make money, why else would Scopely buy them? So they should in return also make something for the players. And for real? Who would have a problem with “AR-Picture POI” in the middle of nowhere, where nothing else is?

Keep all the other Wayspot rules, just change the picture/needs to be an IRL object from the “ok-list”. Give them a restriction with nominating (Wayfarer stats make it the best, since everything could be abused) and go for it? Or at least, test it in certain areas and wait for the feedback of the players?

Thanks